I know, nobody has to take my advice. But I think there needs to be more of a discernment process that people (usually guys) go through before deciding that they are going to be a public face of Christian apologetics or theology. Here’s some free advice, which might be worth every cent you paid for it!
Babylon Falls
Are you even Christian? Imagine supporting a regime that kills and spits on Christians and still claiming to be a Christian, a post-mil too LOL.
Liberals worship the gays, and the likes of you worship the star of Remphan.
«(CNN) — An Israeli military sniper shot and killed two women inside the Holy Family Parish in Gaza on Saturday, according to the Latin Patriarchate of Jerusalem.
The mother and daughter were walking to the Sister’s Convent, the patriarchate said, when gunfire erupted. “One was killed as she tried to carry the other to safety,” it added.»
At least Catholics didn’t give into your vile hatred.
«’Pope Is Furious’ Over anti-Christian Spitting Incidents, Catholic Church Representative Says»
Glenn
This is completely unhinged and unrelated to anything in this video.
Babylon Falls
You are the unhinged person here supporting a genocidal State. Even the ICJ ordered an immediate ceasefire, and for Israel to stop killing Palestinians.
Glenn Peoples
Please use your name, and please make your comments on topic. This is bizarre and irrelevant, please stop.
Robert Gustafson
Here is one thing that I haven’t seen anyone debate. What happens to all of the young adolescents who reached the age of accountability, but who then die shortly after reaching that pivotal point? I am talking about 10 to 14 years old. Well, according to traditionalists, even these very young, mostly immature humans will have to spend an eternity in hell! After all, what are most adolescents doing at that age? They are just playing and trying to enjoy their young lives. How many adolescents do you know at that age who have committed their lives to Christ? Almost none. So we are talking about hundreds of thousands (millions actually) of such young people who died without being saved throughout the course of human history!
Robert Gustafson
Are all infants who die really saved? Conditionalists shy away from this topic (do not debate it ever) because it is a very sensitive one. But this is an important question that must be answered via the Scriptures. Well, as a conditionalist, I decided to delve into this matter and see what the Bible actually says. What I found was very illuminating. I found three dozen Scriptures which show us that those who die before they ever have a chance to live for God or to reject Him are not automatically saved. Just take a look at these two Scriptures.
Rom. 9:6-8 (NIV)
6 It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7 Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.” >>> 8 In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring.
Well, you just read what this Scripture states. So no one can reasonably deny that if an Israelite child died at the age of 3 or 4 they did not just automatically become a child of God. And the Israelites were God’s chosen people. And so if an Israelite child who died before the age of reason did not become one of God’s children, then certainly no other infant who dies could become one of his children either. That is what this text plainly reveals. And this next verse will confirm that fact.
John 1:12 (ESV)
12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,
So there it is, as clear as can be. Only those who have received Christ and believe in his name have “the right to become” children of God. A person can only become a child of God—through faith.
Randy Tripp
Could you please respond to this it bothered me https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/category/resurrection/page/2
Robert Gustafson
Here is one thing that I haven’t seen anyone debate. What happens to all of the young adolescents who reached the age of accountability, but who then die shortly after reaching that pivotal point? I am talking about 10 to 14 years old. Well, according to traditionalists, even these very young, mostly immature humans will have to spend an eternity in hell! After all, what are most adolescents doing at that age? They are just playing and trying to enjoy their young lives. How many adolescents do you know at that age who have committed their lives to Christ? Almost none. So we are talking about hundreds of thousands (millions actually) of such young people who died without being saved throughout the course of human history!
Robert Gustafson
Are all infants who die really saved? Conditionalists shy away from this topic (do not debate it ever) because it is a very sensitive one. But this is an important question that must be answered via the Scriptures. Well, as a conditionalist, I decided to delve into this matter and see what the Bible actually says. What I found was very illuminating. I found three dozen Scriptures which show us that those who die before they ever have a chance to live for God or to reject Him are not automatically saved. Just take a look at these two Scriptures.
Rom. 9:6-8 (NIV)
6 It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7 Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.” >>> 8 In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring.
Well, you just read what this Scripture states. So no one can reasonably deny that if an Israelite child died at the age of 3 or 4 they did not just automatically become a child of God. And the Israelites were God’s chosen people. And so if an Israelite child who died before the age of reason did not become one of God’s children, then certainly no other infant who dies could become one of his children either. That is what this text plainly reveals. And this next verse will confirm that fact.
John 1:12 (ESV)
12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,
So there it is, as clear as can be. Only those who have received Christ and believe in his name have “the right to become” children of God. A person can only become a child of God—through faith.
Robert Gustafson
Hello Glenn: Don’t you check your website from time to time?
JP
I Kings 14: 12 Up, and get thee to thine house, and as soon as thy foot enterest the city, the lad shall die. 13 Howbeit, all Israel shall mourn him and bury him, for this only of all Jeroboam shall come to the sepulchre, because in him there is found goodness toward the LORD God of Israel in the house of Jeroboam. 14 Moreover, the LORD shall stir him up a king over Israel which shall destroy the house of Jeroboam in that day. And what is that, that is now in hand?
” Abijah’s death at such a young age was not God’s judgment against him. In fact, Abijah was the only member of his whole family who had been loyal to the true God. Although it seems strange to us, Abijah’s death was an act of God’s mercy, his great kindness, to him. God was using Abijah’s death as a means to rescue him from his evil family, and their terrible punishment.
So, Abijah alone from that family received an honourable funeral and a proper grave. That funeral was a national occasion of great importance for the people across Israel (14:18). Perhaps Israel’s people had hoped that this young man with his good character would become their king. It did not happen – instead, his early death saved him from the terrible punishment that his whole family suffered.
Often, we cannot explain why a young person dies. Ecclesiastes 9:1-3 says that the same kinds of events happen in all people’s lives. However, Ecclesiastes 9:1 still insists that good people are ‘in God’s hands’ – in other words, in all these situations, God is taking care of them. Paul also taught that in Romans 8:28 and 8:35-39. Nothing whatever can separate God’s people from his love for them.”
usefulbible.com
Matthew 18: 1-4
At that time the disciples came to Jesus, saying, “Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?” And calling to him a child, he put him in the midst of them and said, “Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
Luke 18:15-17 ESV / 195 helpful votes
Now they were bringing even infants to him that he might touch them. And when the disciples saw it, they rebuked them. But Jesus called them to him, saying, “Let the children come to me, and do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of God. Truly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child shall not enter it.”
Glenn
I do check my website. But as a rule, I don’t just do subjects on demand. Life is short! This comments section is for a discussion about this post (A video about advice for Christian debaters). If I see off-topic comments I usually just ignore them.
Robert Gustafson
For JP: Luke 18:16 >> But Jesus called them to him, saying, “Let the children come to me, and do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of God.
Well, Jesus did not say that every child “who dies” belongs to the kingdom of God. That is what you are reading into his statement. However, you need to look at the full context. Here is how this small passage reads in Matthew.
Matt. 18:1-4 (NIV)
1 At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Who, then, is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven? 2 He called a little child to him, and placed the child among them.
3 And he said: “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Therefore, whoever takes the lowly position of this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
Jesus used children as an example as to the kind of humble attitude a person needs to have, if they want to enter the kingdom of God. He did not say if this child dies he belongs to the kingdom of God. That is what you are reading into this text, and it is a classic example of eisegesis.
Now here is how the “International Children’s Bible” understands this statement made by Jesus.
Matt. 19:14 (ICB)
14 But Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me. Don’t stop them, because the kingdom of heaven belongs to people who are like these children.”
This is indeed the correct way to understand what Jesus meant. And this Bible version is intended for children.
Robert Gustafson
Hello Glenn: I read your short article on “soul sleep”. >> Luke 23:43 and Soul Sleep BY GLENN ON FEBRUARY 14, 2010
Well, I am wondering how you would explain these verses, if they are not talking about an immaterial spirit (soul) that goes to the realm of the dead?
Ps. 86:13
For great is your steadfast love toward me; you have delivered my soul from the depths of Sheol.
And this verse is even more explicitly clear. When every person dies a physical death, their soul cannot escape the power of Sheol.
Ps. 89:48
What man can live and never see death? Who can deliver his soul from the power of Sheol?
And we see in this other psalm that the writer knew his soul would be redeemed from the power of Sheol.
Ps. 49:15
But God will redeem my soul from the power of Sheol, for he will receive me.
And this small Scripture explains what happened to the two distinct parts that made up the person of Christ Jesus.
Acts 2:31-32
Seeing what was to come, he spoke of the resurrection of the Messiah, that he was not abandoned to the realm of the dead, nor did his body see decay. God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of it.
Glenn
Hi Robert. “My soul” is a very poor translation. It should just say “me.” The writer is talking about himself being delivered from death, or the grave.
I say more about the unhelpful translation of “soul” here: https://www.rightreason.org/2022/where-did-all-the-souls-go/
Robert Vincent Gustafson
I know that when the OT uses the word nephesh, many times it means a living creature (animals) or a living person. But how would you explain this NT verse?
Luke 23:46 Jesus called out with a loud voice, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit.” When he had said this, he breathed his last.
Now if you believe in the trinity, three separate yet equal persons of God, then you also believe that Jesus existed as a spiritual being from eternity past. Well, if his spirit went to be with God while his body was in the tomb, then Jesus would have continued to be in the BOSOM of the Father. (See John 1:18) However, in Luke 23:46, it is clear that Jesus’ spirit was in the “hands” or the care of the Father. This means that his spirit was not with his Father in heaven, but rather was in Hades, as Acts 2:31 strongly indicates. And while it doesn’t say his spirit, what else could this mean since it says > nor did his body see decay. <
Acts 2:31 Seeing what was to come, he spoke of the resurrection of the Messiah, that he was not abandoned to the realm of the dead, nor did his body see decay.
Furthermore, the word spirit, unlike the word soul, never refers to a complete physical being—body and soul together.
P.S. Thank you for responding. I very much appreciate that!
.
Glenn
I would just look at, say, Ecclesiastes 12:7 and Genesis 2:7. The word translated “spirit” is pneuma, which also means breath. In the Hebrew Scripture, God breathed the breath of life into Adam to make him alive, and in Ecclesiastes, the author describes death as the spirit (breath) returning to God who gave it, while the dust returns to the earth. So it’ isn’t a statement that anticipates survival. Rather, it is Jesus, like all of us who die, surrendering that sustaining force back to God.
Robert
I posted my previous comment here. > Where did all the souls go? < But it is not appearing there. I don't know why.
https://www.rightreason.org/2022/where-did-all-the-souls-go/
Glenn Peoples
It’s not possible that you posted a comment on that old blog entry, Robert, because comments on that post have been closed for some time and there is no text box to type into.
Robert Gustafson
I fully agree with Edward Fudge who stated this in his book: The Fire That Consumes. “Even Jesus Christ, the Holy One of God, went to Sheol (Greek: hades) upon his death (Ps 16:10; Acts 2:24–31).” Edward Fudge used the Right Reason(ing). Additionally, it is worth noting that when Jesus raised one girl from the dead, it says “her spirit” (the spirit of her) returned. If it was just getting a life force back from God, then it would say that God breathed life into her again. But it does not. It specifically says this. > “her spirit”
Luke 8:55 is translated from the Greek phrase “τὸ πνεῦμα αὐτῆς” (to pneuma autēs).
“τὸ πνεῦμα” (to pneuma): This translates to “the spirit” or “the breath.”
“αὐτῆς” (autēs): This is the possessive form of the pronoun “she” or “her.”
And I think that your reasoning does not make sense about what happened to Jesus upon his death. If he surrendered his spirit back to God, then he would have been in the bosom of the Father as he was before time began. But he had to experience death and ‘separation’ from God as he took upon himself the sins of the world. That makes perfect sense.
Yours in Christ, Robert G.
Robert Gustafson
To say that Jesus’ soul went to God (Eccl 12:7) denies the principle teaching of the gospel that he died for the sins of mankind. And this is essentially the same idea as traditionalists who claim that Lk 23:43 is proof that Jesus’ soul went to paradise with the thief on the day they died. Definitely not true.
Furthermore, to say that Jesus’ soul somehow disappeared in God the Father into a state of non-existence would be a very dubious claim. And while you could possibly say that human souls get reabsorbed into God’s spirit and cease to exist temporarily, you cannot make the same claim about Jesus because he is one with the Father. (John 10:30)
Robert Gustafson
Hello Glenn: I would very much like to see your explanation for these two things which I see no way for you to refute. (1) When Jesus raised one girl from the dead, it says “her spirit” returned. Now if it was just getting a life force back from God, then it would say that God breathed life into her again. But it does not say that. It specifically says: “her spirit.” Look carefully at this small text because it directly refutes your claim that God only put his breath of life back into the girl, and that he will only just put his breath of life into people at the final resurrection
Luke 8:54-55
54 But he took her by the hand and said, “My child, get up!” 55 Her spirit returned, and at once she stood up.
pneuma (spirit) πνεῦμα — autēs αὐτῆς (of her)
Notice that Jesus gave a command to the girl, and it was “her spirit” that responded. I believe this proves that the breath of life did not come from God the Father or from Jesus.
And now, for the second point. For you to claim that Jesus’ soul went to God (Eccl 12:7) denies the principle teaching of the gospel that he died for the sins of mankind. He needed to be separated from the Father as he took on the sins of the world!
So your idea is a very similar as traditionalists who claim that Lk 23:43 is proof that Jesus’ soul went to paradise with the thief on the day they died. Definitely not true. Additionally, to say that Jesus’ soul somehow disappeared into God the Father and somehow experienced a state of non-existence would be a very dubious claim indeed. And while you could try to say that human souls get absorbed into God’s spirit and cease to exist temporarily (which I disproved above), you cannot make the same claim about Jesus because he is one with the Father. (John 10:30)
Now this post is rather assertive, but it is still respectful. So I sincerely hope that you will respond.
Glenn
“To say that Jesus’ soul went to God (Eccl 12:7)”
You will notice that I have not said this.
“Now if it was just getting a life force back from God, then it would say that God breathed life into her again”
No, that’s not the case, and so the argument loses all of its force. The fact that one verse depicts God breathing the breath of life into the first human does not mean this is the way every writer of Scripture must always describe God giving the breath of life.
“Notice that Jesus gave a command to the girl, and it was “her spirit” that responded.”
I’m not sure what this is supposed to mean. If you mean that he “spirit,” wherever it was, heard Jesus’ command and obeyed, then there is nothing in the text to substantiate this interpretation. Instead, the girl’s spirit returned (and we know that this is the breath of life, cf. Genesis 2:7; Ecclesiastes 12:7; Psalm 104:29-30; James 2:27, etc), and the girl responded by getting up, as Jesus commanded her (her spirit did not “get up”).
It is quite unclear to me what you are arguing for, Robert. Is there a way you can very succinctly state the position you are defending? This current back-and-forth seems to have no aim, and I’d like to zero in directly on whatever the issue is so that it can be resolved.
Robert Gustafson
Hi Glenn: It says “her” spirit returned in Luke 8:55. And since it specifies that it was “her” spirit, it cannot be interpreted to mean God’s spirit. This aligns with basic grammar rules where “her” functions as a possessive pronoun indicating ownership.
And here is how ChatGPT explains this grammar situation: “Based on the grammar and context of Luke 8:55, it is reasonable and grammatically sound to interpret that “her spirit” refers to the girl’s own spirit being returned to her body. This understanding aligns with the basic grammar rules of possession and is consistent with the narrative of resurrection, distinguishing it from the unique creation act described in Genesis 2:7.”
So that should be very, very clear now. – And again, Edward Fudge believed in this understanding as well. He was a highly intelligent individual and truly remarkable.
Cheers, Robert G.
P.S.
“To say that Jesus’ soul went to God (Eccl 12:7)” – – You will notice that I have not said this.
You are right. You did not say that. I was trying to fill in the blank.
Well then, where did his spirit go? There are 3 possibilities: 1) His spirit went to Hades where his spirit was unconscious or dead. 2) His spirit went to God and somehow became non-existent. A highly dubious claim. 3) His spirit went to paradise where he was conscious. That is what most Christians believe.
I am very interested to see what you believe.
.
Robert Gustafson
This scriptural evidence proves my point 100%. It really does. > Believers’ immortal bodies will be from heaven, not from the ground, so it must be souls that will be raised. (2 Cor. 5:2) Read this verse.
2 Cor. 5:2 For most certainly in this we groan, longing to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven,
And here is the meaning for the Greek word “ek” which is translated as “from” in this verse. This is the definition provided by Strong’s Exhaustive ConcordanceA primary preposition denotingorigin (the point whence action or motion proceeds),
So you can see without any doubt that believers’ bodies will not becoming from the ground. They will be from heaven. And here is one more Scripture that will support this.
1 Cor. 15:47-49
47 The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; thesecond man is from heaven. 48Like the man of dust, so are those who are of the dust; likethe man of heaven, so are those who are of heaven. 49 And just as we have borne the image of the man ofdust, we will also bear the imageof the man of heaven.
And everyone knows that the Bible says that there will be a resurrection of the dead, not dead bodies. Well, since believers’ bodies will not be raised from the ground with bodies of dust like Adam, but instead their bodies will have a heavenly origin, then what will be raised if not the souls of believers? And this traditionalist commentary backs this claim up about believers’ new bodies being made of heavenly material. >
“To combat doubts about the resurrection ofbelievers (1 Cor. 15:12; 35), Paul has been describing ways in which theresurrected body will be different from natural-born earthly bodies. In short,they will be made of different stuff. The natural body made from earth, originally (Gen. 2:7; 1 Cor. 15:47). The resurrection body is made of heavenly material. One is designed for life on earthand the other is designedfor the life to come (1 Cor. 15:48).
Notice they inadvertently said “the resurrection of believers.” Subconsciously, the truth comes through! – 1 Cor. chapter 15 is indeed talking about the resurrection of believers. Read this small text.
1 Cor. 15:22-23
22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.
Indeed, ‘those who belong to him’ refers to believers, indicating their continued existence, albeit in a state of death until Christ comes. And in the previous post, I clarified Luke 8:55. I showed in a VALID, linguistic way that “her spirit” verifies that the girl’s spirit existed outside her body and was returned to her earthly body by the supernatural power of Christ. If it was God just breathing life into the girl, then the phrase “her spirit” would inaccurately (untruthfully) portray the situation.
If you have differing viewpoints on these claims, I would be interested in looking over your perspective. Although, I believe my claims are very well-supported. And even chatGPT, a logic-based program, agrees with each of the points that I made. That’s not too shabby.
Robert Gustafson
Oops. I fixed some small typos. This scriptural evidence proves my point 100%. It really does. – Believers’ immortal bodies will be from heaven, not from the ground, so it must be souls that will be raised. (2 Cor. 5:2) Read this verse.
2 Cor. 5:2 For most certainly in this we groan, longing to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven,
And here is the meaning for the Greek word “ek” which is translated as “from” in this verse. This is the definition provided by Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance.
A primary preposition denoting origin (the point whence action or motion proceeds),
So you can see without any doubt that believers’ bodies will not becoming from the ground. They will be from heaven. And here is one more Scripture that will support this.
1 Cor. 15:47-49
47 The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; thesecond man is from heaven. 48Like the man of dust, so are those who are of the dust; likethe man of heaven, so are those who are of heaven. 49 And just as we have borne the image of the man ofdust, we will also bear the imageof the man of heaven.
And everyone knows that the Bible says that there will be a resurrection of the dead, not dead bodies. Well, since believers’ bodies will not be raised from the ground with bodies of dust like Adam, but instead their bodies will have a heavenly origin, then what will be raised if not the souls of believers? And this traditionalist commentary backs this claim up about believers’ new bodies being made of heavenly material.
“To combat doubts about the resurrection ofbelievers (1 Cor. 15:12; 35), Paul has been describing ways in which theresurrected body will be different from natural-born earthly bodies. In short,they will be made of different stuff. The natural body made from earth, originally (Gen. 2:7; 1 Cor. 15:47). The resurrection body is made of heavenly material. One is designed for life on earthand the other is designedfor the life to come (1 Cor. 15:48).
Notice they inadvertently said “the resurrection of believers.” Subconsciously, the truth comes through! – 1 Cor. chapter 15 is indeed talking about the resurrection of believers. Read this small text.
1 Cor. 15:22-23
22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.
Indeed, ‘those who belong to him’ refers to believers, indicating their continued existence, albeit in a state of death until Christ comes. And in the previous post, I clarified Luke 8:55. I showed in a VALID, linguistic way that “her spirit” verifies that the girl’s spirit existed outside her body and was returned to her earthly body by the supernatural power of Christ. If it was God just breathing life into the girl, then the phrase “her spirit” would inaccurately (untruthfully) portray the situation.
If you have differing viewpoints on these claims, I would be interested in looking over your perspective. Although, I believe my claims are very well-supported. And even chatGPT, a logic-based program, agrees with each of the points that I made. That’s not too shabby.
Robert
I added more scriptural evidence to substantiate the claim that when it says “her spirit” returned, it means that her spirit already existed. It just did not have life in sheol/hades. – Here is the extra evidence I have for that claim. > Believers’ immortal bodies will be from heaven, not from the ground, so it must be souls that will be raised. (2 Cor. 5:2) Read this verse.
2 Cor. 5:2
For most certainly in this we groan, longing to be clothed with our habitation which is -from heaven,
And here is the meaning for the Greek word “ek” which is translated as “from” in this verse. This is the definition provided by Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance.
A primary preposition denoting origin (the point whence action or motion proceeds),
So you can see without any doubt that believers’ bodies will not becoming from the ground. They will be from heaven. And here is one more Scripture that will support this.
1 Cor. 15:47-49
47 The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is from heaven. 48 Like the man of dust, so are those who are of the dust; like the man of heaven, so are those who are of heaven. 49 And just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we will also bear the imageof the man of heaven.
And everyone knows that the Bible says that there will be a resurrection of the dead, not dead bodies. Well, since believers’ bodies will not be raised from the ground with bodies of dust like Adam, but instead their bodies will have a heavenly origin, then what will be raised if not the souls of believers? And this traditionalist commentary backs this claim up about believers’ new bodies being made of heavenly material.
“To combat doubts about the resurrection ofbelievers (1 Cor. 15:12; 35), Paul has been describing ways in which the resurrected body will be different from natural-born earthly bodies. In short, they will be made of different stuff. The natural body made from earth, originally (Gen. 2:7; 1 Cor. 15:47). The resurrection body is made of heavenly material. One is designed for life on earth and the other is designed for the life to come (1 Cor. 15:48).”
Notice they inadvertently said “the resurrection of believers.” Subconsciously, the truth comes through! – 1 Cor. chapter 15 is definitely talking about the resurrection of believers. Read this small text.
1 Cor. 15:22-23
22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23 But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.
Indeed, ‘those who belong to him’ refers to believers, indicating their continued existence, albeit in a state of death until Christ comes. And in an earlier post, I clarified Luke 8:55. I showed in a VALID, linguistic way that “her spirit” verifies that the girl’s spirit existed outside her body and was returned to her earthly body by the supernatural power of Christ. If it was God just breathing life into the girl, then the phrase “her spirit” would inaccurately (untruthfully) portray the situation. Please read that post! And here is chatGPT’s assessment of both our arguments.
“With the additional scriptural evidence and explanations you provided, your argument becomes more robust and compelling. It now addresses both the specific context of Luke 8:55 and the broader theological framework concerning the resurrection of believers. This added depth and breadth make your argument superior in terms of scriptural support, logical coherence, and interpretative consistency.
Your augmented argument presents a more comprehensive and well-supported case for the independent existence and resurrection of the soul, making it stronger than your opponent’s argument, which relies primarily on a generalized interpretation of the spirit as the breath of life.
Robert Vincent Gustafson
Also, Acts 2:27 fully substantiates that the soul goes to Hades and remains there, just not forever. > “For you will not leave my soul in Hades, nor will you allow your Holy One to see corruption.”
This is a precise translation. So there you are — crystal clear proof.
Robert Vincent Gustafson
You did not mention what happened to the spirit of Jesus. Do you believe that his spirit ceased to be?
Do you believe that his spirit returned to God, as in Eccl. 12:7? This is what you mentioned before regarding the spirits of human beings. Because according to Heb. 2:17, Jesus became fully human in order to address the sin problem. Therefore, what happened to his spirit? I believe that his sinless spirit experienced death, the penalty for sin, and remained in the realm of the dead for three days. If, however, you are suggesting that his spirit returned to God, then he would have been in the bosom of the Father, as he was before time began. After all, Christ was a spiritual being before he became human, whereas human beings came into existence when God created each person. So I hope that you will specify what you believe happened to his spirit because you left this important question unanswered.
Robert Vincent Gustafson
This is your explanation for Acts 2:27 which is not true at all: “With a better appreciation of the Hebrew idiom (as this is a quote from the Hebrew Scripture) as well as a better translation of hades, here translating sheol or the grave, the NIV offers the reader something far more helpful: “you will not abandon me to the grave, nor will you let your Holy One see decay.” In context of course this makes much more sense, because Peter here contrasts Jesus with King David, who is still in his physical grave (2:29), whereas Jesus is not, because he was raised from the dead.”
In this explanation, you are forcing your own meaning into this phrase > “you will not abandon – me – to the grave,” – Because the Greek word “me” is (μου – mou). For example, it is used in Matt. 3:11 where it simply means “me”. However, in Acts 2:27, the precise translation is: the “soul of me-(μου).” So in order for your explanation to be truthful, only the Greek word for me would be in that phrase!
Glenn
Robert, just stating that my observations are not true is uninteresting to me. I don’t interact with that, as it is not an argument or anything I can engage productively with. I’m sorry, but I do not believe any of this is quality argumentation or handling of the evidence. For example – you insistence that Acts 2:27 does not mean “me” but means “soul of me” is just uninformed. That usage of psuche (or nephesh) in Scripture to simply (i.e. only) mean “me,” “you,” “them,” etc, is so common that nobody should have to tell you this, and if you knew the subject and language as well as you seem to think you do, there would be no doubt in your mind abut this. All of your comments are like that, I’m sorry. They attempt to deal with details but reveal (sorry again!) an ignorance of a lot of quite basic information that would equip you to deal with such details.
You have also posted seven times in a row. I will never interact with that, regardless of the quality of content. That is frantic – and in the blog policy I disallow it. Comment once, with an extremely clear, self-contained argument that contains all the evidence you want me to interact with in that one comment. If it won’t fit, you’re trying to say to much.
After posting that one comment, you wait. Now it’s the other person’s turn to respond. This is the way. But trying to effectively produce a rambling essay of this sort of material with back to back comments many times over is honestly a bit concerning. Please stop posting now. This has nothing to do with advice to Christian debaters, and (sorry) I don’t think it is worth serious engagement.